Black Map may be a new band on the hard rock scene, but its members aren’t lacking in experience

Music fans don’t realize the immense amount of preparation it takes to successfully launch a new band. Schedules have to be arranged, songs need to be constructed and, most importantly, the members need to get along and work together. The countless, sweaty and long rehearsals held regardless of bad weather alongside the immense pressure each member puts upon his/her self can be daunting.

Although point of origin shouldn’t be an issue, hard rock band Black Map, which features drummer Chris Robyn (Far), guitarist Mark Engles (Dredg) and bassist/vocalist Ben Flanagan (Trophy Fire), have got all three potential problems working in their favor. Once more, they’ve garnered a strong buzz overseas by getting in front of people well before the release of their first full-length album.

The band hit it off immediately after playing together for the first time and were recording within a month, eventually touring behind the end product, the magnificent Driver EP. And while the band hasn’t really embarked on a proper tour to promote their new album—…And We Explode on Minus Head Records—let’s just say it’s in the works.

Fans of Sparta, Dredg, Far and the like will appreciate the new album for the ebbs and flows of the songs all the way through to the ambient outro “And We Explode Part 2.” “Code,” the opening track, kicks off the album after a nice atmospheric swell and showcases the band’s attention to both staccato rhythms and its open-ended chorus. “Chinaski” also finds the band expanding into emo-rock territory with great effect and rivals any of the members’ work with their previous bands. Also of worthy mention is “Head to the Hills,” which finds Flanagan and Robyn locking in perfectly amongst Engles’ handy fretwork.

Submerge caught up with Flanagan in San Francisco as he was preparing for two shows at Bottom of the Hill and Sacramento’s Blue Lamp, the latter of which would be canceled.

Has Black Map played out much thus far?
We’ve only played about 45 shows at this point and eight local shows. We also did a two-week tour with Chevelle in the states on the West Coast in July 2014.

You previously played in a band called The Actual. What was your experience like being signed to Scott Weiland’s Softdrive Records?
I joined the band after they already existed. There was a lot of pressure from Scott and others to add a second guitarist/singer. Before I even played a note, I was in their music video. Scott is one of the most talented performers and is quite esoteric. We also were fortunate enough to do a couple weeks touring with Velvet Revolver.

You also played with another well-known band, Dredg. Do you have plans to go out as a backing vocalist/guitarist?
Dredg is very much a band and, yes, they’re still active. They recently toured in Europe without me. Me playing with them is just a matter of scheduling and need and depends on the material they’re playing since they have done album anniversary shows.

Your last record with The Trophy Fire was released in 2013. What’s happening with that band?
The band is dormant but not dead. The guys are close friends and we don’t have anybody yelling over our shoulder to keep busy. Right now I’m concentrating on Black Map and promoting this record.

Where do your bass lines come from?
I pretty much write all my bass lines. The skeletons of the songs come from either Mark or myself. Of course, when it comes to the songs I wrote, I write everything.

“And We Explode Part 2” has an early M83 vibe. Are you into electronic music?
I love ambient electronic music, Depeche Mode and ethereal Brit-pop. We recorded this over much time and decided that we would end the album and cleanse the listener’s musical palate.

What was it like working with Aaron Hellam and his Hellam Sound studio?
Aaron is a really great friend and we have great history with him. He knows how to talk to us but he is definitely helpful with adding little extras and 90 percent of the time he’s right when giving input. It’s cool, though, because his studio is in a building connected to our rehearsal space. It’s called Jack London rehearsals.

Where did you end up meeting Chris Robyn [drummer of Far] and how did this collaboration with Mark Engles come about?
It’s pretty random. Dear Kerosene was my previous band. We needed a lawyer to do a trademark on our band name and Eddie Meehan from ground(ctrl) recommended our music. There’s a song we had called “Trust” that he liked and we developed a mutual admiration for each other’s music.

How are you going to promote the new record in 2015? Touring?
Definitely. We’re in the midst of booking more shows in the West Coast and then hope to head back to Europe early in the year. At present, we don’t have a booking agent but we are looking hard for one now for national and international tours.

Any festival plans for 2015? SXSW?
It’s definitely possible that we will play. We got asked last year to play two parties, but it wasn’t worth it financially.

How was the tour of the United Kingdom?
It couldn’t have been better. The Driver EP came out long before the European tour. We purposely had the four-song EP so we could have something to sell. We also have vinyl coming out soon.

Any Bay Area bands that you’re currently into?
My two favorite bands are called Picture Atlantic [Brit-pop trio] and Eyes on the Shore, who play earthy rock ‘n’ roll.

What bands would you like to support or open for next year?
That’s a loaded question. There are so many bands we’d love to share the stage with. Obviously, Queens of the Stone Age, Baroness, Failure and Deftones are high on the list. There are many others that I can’t think of but there are definitely many more. We’ve talked to Abe Cunningham from Deftones and have our fingers crossed that they’ll have a slot on one of their tours.

San Francisco is expensive. How can you afford it and still tour?
I am a bartender at a place called Leopold’s in San Francisco. It’s Austrian and German fare. Minus Head paid for a lot of things like transportation costs and have been awesome thus far.

What can fans expect from your upcoming show other than, obviously, songs from the new record?
We’re going to play the record in its entirety since we haven’t played “Stranger” and “And We Explode Part 2” in Sacramento yet. We’ll also try to do a cover song or two to break things up.

Have you been getting good feedback from social media?
Yes. I think we all are responsible for that. All of the band members outside of Black Map support us and you will find information about us on their Facebook pages and websites as well. There’s no reason it all can’t be shared since we all have the common goal to be seen and heard by as many as possible.

Where is your biggest fan base outside of the Northwest and California?
I think in all the markets we’ve played with Chevelle have helped us gain some new fans. We still haven’t played the East Coast or Midwest yet but hope to play all over this year.

Any plans to return and play Sacramento proper in 2015?
Since we had to cancel our show for personal reasons, I’m going to rebook this early in the year.

Have you heard any rumblings from the other members of Dredg or the other guys’ bands about Black Map?
They all seem to like the band, and I’ve heard nothing but positive feedback.

Any extra songs in the can for the next record even though yours was just released in late October?
We’re just starting the process of writing. We’re not a band that wants to put out something every two years. We plan to write well throughout 2015.

Do you feel like Black Map is getting more response than any of your projects?
Yeah, definitely. My previous band, The Actual, had some pretty big legs under it since we were signed to an imprint through the majors. It’s just nice to see the reaction, and we’ve all put in a lot of time in this industry.

To order …And We Explode and to keep up on their calendar, go to Blackmapmusic.com

Dredg Digs Deep on New Album The Pariah, The Parrot, The Delusion

When used properly, words have immense power. Whether written, spoken or sung, they can and will affect people’s thoughts and actions. Perhaps no one is as familiar with this as British Indian novelist and essayist Salman Rushdie, whose controversial works (mainly his 1988 novel, The Satanic Verses) have sparked protests, uproars and even death threats against him. More recently one of Rushdie’s essays, titled “Imagine There’s No Heaven: A Letter to the 6 Billionth World Citizen,” had a profound effect on the members of Bay Area-based progressive rock band Dredg. After the writing process had already begun for what would become the band’s fourth studio album, The Pariah, the Parrot, the Delusion, guitarist Mark Engles came upon the letter and knew that he had to share it with the rest of the band, especially lyricist and vocalist Gavin Hayes. “Mark found it in a book he was reading called The Atheist Handbook,” remembers Hayes. “It’s like a chronological depiction of agnostic and atheistic beliefs. It was within that book, and he thought it was pretty relative to a lot of the lyrical content that I had already. So he forwarded it to me and I checked it out and was like, ‘Yeah, this is perfect.'”

Dredg is known for producing concept albums: 1998’s Lietmotif focused upon one man’s existential journey, 2002’s El Cielo is loosely based on sleep paralysis and was inspired by a Salvador Dali painting and 2005’s Catch Without Arms is about opposites and is divided into two “perspectives.” It was almost an immediate decision then for the group to loosely base their new record around Rushdie’s essay. “Imagine There’s No Heaven”¦” is best described as a beautifully written, daring letter that warns of different religious stories and beliefs and opines that one should instead learn for themselves through life’s experiences what to believe in. According to Hayes, “It’s about thinking for yourself.” He expands with, “It’s basically saying to go out, learn as much as you can, expand your mind and then develop your own belief system from there.”

Dredg, which has been a band since its members were in high school, is in the midst of a national tour in support of their new record that will bring them to the Empire Events Center in downtown Sacramento on Aug. 17, 2009. Submerge had a chance to catch up with Hayes via telephone from Jacksonville, Fla. to chat about the letter that inspired their new record, the band’s extensive recording process and what it feels like to be dropped from a major label.

Imagine you are a kid again, and someone read “Imagine There’s No Heaven”¦” to you. How much do you think it would it freak you out?
[Laughs] I don’t know if I’d actually understand it to be honest. I guess it would depend where I was at, if I was raised believing that there was this one God and that Jesus came back to life and saved everyone; then I might think, “Oh wow, that’s scary.” When that’s all you know, then everything else is scary, and it seems evil or something. But if I weren’t raised with it, it would probably be fine. I wish someone did read it to me when I was young.

The letter and the overall theme obviously influenced the artwork and packaging for The Pariah“¦. I read online that it was done by someone from the Bay Area band Division Day. How did that come about?
They’re actually based in Los Angeles now, but they’re all originally from the Bay Area. We went to high school with them. Their singer, Rohner Segnitz, he’s done a lot of work with us. He’s done a lot of our Web sites and he did El Cielo‘s artwork, so he knows our band really well. We obviously gave him the essay and a bunch of lyrics and an outline of how we wanted it packaged. We all knew we wanted it kind of to look like a letter. We went through a lot of different options before we even did the artwork. I had thoughts of putting it in an actual envelope and things like that. It just didn’t seem feasible; to stock that on a shelf, you know, stores get weird about that stuff. There are so many different variables that it definitely affects the decisions.

Producer Matt Radosevich said this of you guys, “Dredg is a band that looks at the recording process as limitless.” I found that interesting; could you elaborate on that?
That’s probably derived from all the experimentation we do in the studio. We try to create sounds that are unique to us. At least speaking for myself as a vocalist, I used tunnels outside and natural reverbs like that to get sounds for my voice rather than using a rack or a pedal or something like that. Things like that are more unique and special and actually make the recording process that much more fun. We worked at a few studios in San Francisco, one being Tiny Telephone that John Vanderslice owns, and he’s got a lot of cool toys in there. We’re really into getting unique sounds. The “Stamps of Origin” on the record, those little snippets, that’s like a Wurlitzer with all these crazy effects. We found that sound just by trial and error, I don’t want to say by accident, but just like tweaking a bunch of stuff. I had the idea of just having really intimate vocals over it, with no effects just really dry and personal. It kind of gelled the record together. We record a lot of ambient sounds in the studio, anything to make the process more exciting and to make everything more unique for the record.

The Pariah“¦ was released through your own label, Ohlone Recordings. Do you mind if I ask what happened with your relationship with Interscope?
Basically, we had been with their label for over eight years, and when we got signed to Interscope it was kind of the peak of CD sales, or I guess I should say the end of its peak. It’s a much different business, a much different label. Their business model has changed drastically; they’re much more focused on pop and R&B and stuff now. If you look at their roster, it’s either very established rock bands or more of a pop-, R&B-focused roster. There were bands around us that were getting dropped that were selling way more records than we were, so it wasn’t a surprise; that’s just the way the business is. That’s basically how it happened. It was nothing more than a logical move for what they were doing as a label. Eight years with a label is a good run. They helped us build, and we are where we are. We’re in a good position. On our own label partnering with ILG, Independent Label Group, out of New York. They’re Warner distribution, that’s something that we really couldn’t do on our own. I think it’s a great model actually; it’s just a one-record deal with them so we can see how it goes.

At least you’re in a good position now, stepping out on your own probably isn’t as terrifying as it might have been years ago.
Yeah, but still, when it initially happened it was somewhat of a letdown, and I felt like I was getting laid off on some level. I don’t know, we’ll see. There are pros and cons to it. Interscope was very beneficial for promotion and things like that. It’s a pretty big monster, so it can make things happen”¦ It feels good to be independent and to be running your own business and so on, but it’s also a little more stressful and it’s a little more work to make things happen and to get people to listen.

Have you been pleased with the reaction to the new record so far?
Yeah, so far at least the fans that we have are really digging it. I think 90 percent of them are really enjoying it, I mean of course there’s always people that are like, “Oh I like your first record, or your second record,” and so on. To be honest, I wish we were getting a little more exposure on this record. I feel like this is our best record. A friend of mine in New York called and was like, “Dude when is your record out?” and I’m like, “Yeah, it’s actually been out for like three weeks.” Obviously we’re not touching all the markets yet. This tour might be helping a little bit. I think we at least, with the amount of time we’ve invested in this band, deserve a shot at getting people to decide whether they like it or not. If they don’t, then that’s our fault and there’s nothing you can do about that. It can be frustrating if you feel like it’s not getting a shot and people aren’t having the opportunity to listen to it. That’s how our band has been our whole career; it’s been a very gradual, snail’s pace momentum.

At the end of your bio, it says of The Pariah“¦, “It’s the album Dredg has been working toward their entire career.” Would you agree with that?
Yeah I think it’s a great balance of our career, it has elements from our whole career mixed into one record as well as some progressive elements. At least personally speaking, these are some of my best vocal performances. I’m pretty happy overall with the record. I’m probably more content with this record than I’ve been with any record we’ve done. Whether or not people agree, I think that’s where all of us are in the band, we’re really happy with this record, it turned out exactly the way we envisioned it, which is rare.